Tuesday, March 4, 2008

Collectors' Corner II

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"St. MICHAEL", 1970
/Click on image to enlarge/
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"I have always been attracted to religious paintings, but only the ones that had that mystical or supernatural quality in them, especially Saint Teresa by Bernini. Just looking at Saint Teresa I get some kind of vibrations from it. I can close my eyes and feel them. That's great art, and it brings on that tingling sexual feeling. Other saints, like Saint Sebastian, do that as well. But the Christ figure was always the one that was dominant for me.That's why I say that Christ to me is still the greatest shaman, and that is why some religious visions are so complex, and so very hard to explain to people. So whenever you are looking at my pictures, you are looking at my visions, whatever they may be."

Norval Morrisseau-------------------------------------------------------------=====-------------

* Blog Master is thanking a collector for the submission of an image of the original painting by Norval Morrisseau and respects his/her decision to remain anonymous: "St. Michael", © 1970 Norval Morrisseau

17 comments:

Bryant Ross said...

The blog has been changed back to moderation. Spirit Walker and myself do not agree on a lot of topics, fore most the authenticity of some of the paintings presented on this blog. We have agreed to dis-agree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
So the blog was "open" for today. Some interesting comments were exchanged, There was also some unnessesary malicious statements. Someone began posting comments with profane content, dis-respecting others and dis-respecting Norval Morrisseau. This culminated in someone trying to post Spirit Walkers real name over and over again on the blog. The person that did this is trying to destroy the blog. It is his fault that we can not post freely on this site.
I believe that Spirit Walker's intentions are honorable. I do not agree with him, but I do not hold dis-respact for him. Because of the screening he will have to do there will be a lag in time when you post your comment. He does have a life and can not be available 24/7. He promises me that he will post everything, wether he agrees with it or not, that does not have malicious intentions. So keep the profanity to your self and lets get on with an intelligent conversation.

Anonymous said...

I am currently in Belize on business. I will try to catch up on this blog. Thanks to all who contribute. Your passion for Morrisseau art is appreciated and shared. I have posted a response comment on the board in a previous post asking me to comment.

All my Relations,
JZ

CT said...

CT is back
sad it seems a few have ruined the free flow of debate for all.
I too agree with the posting above, to agree to disagree is better than most of the garbage we saw yesterday.
I also want to thank Spirit Walker as to date he has the only blog which posts this much info and pictures related to Morrisseau.
debate is always good.
thanks to the poster of the painting above, I am now debating if I will do the same?
I did stop posting a while back out of frustration, but after some thought I decided that it is more important to participate rather than sit in silence.
let's get back on track, children need not participate.
THANKS.
CT always ID's himself.

CT said...

Hi
I just posted a comment here after Bryant and before John.
did it not come through?

Anonymous said...

Out of interest - did the collector mention if the painting was signed on the back? I presume not since it is dated on front.

THANK YOU FOR FOR SHARING!

Anonymous said...

hello
how does one go about submitting a photo? I will consider now as Mr Ross has done the same.
I would prefer to post as anonymous but would like to share.
regards

Anonymous said...

hello again
I would insist on submitting in low resolution ONLY, it can be viewed very clearly here, but it would prevent anyone from making "copies"
thank you

Spirit Walker said...

The painting above is not from Bryant Ross' collection. It is from private collector who wants to remain anonymous.

Anybody who wants to send me images of their paintings they can do so at my e-mail address: spiritwalker2008@gmail.com .

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Question for Bryant...

There was a Morrisseau you offered for sale on your site and that you sold. It then appeared on your archive page and was there until very recently but it is now gone. It was very similar in style to the paintings questioned by many on this site. I forget the image but it was a boy and it had an orange background. Do you recall the piece?

Why is it no longer on your site? Can you post a picture of it on this blog for us to see since it was on your site for a good year or two. Was it not signed on the back? Was it pictured on your archive page in the spot where their is no picture anymore (in between Nature's Guide and Looking to Spring)

Look forward to seeing a picture of it again and hearing more about this painting from you, the provenance of the piece, the signature(s), date etc and why you do not show it anymore.

Anonymous said...

the painting above looks good to me? I have said before Norvals works are stunning,I have seen a few in person.
many of the works under question seem pretty good to me too??
SOOOOO confusing, PLEEESE HELP..

Anonymous said...

I have followed this blog since last year and have read interesting stuff regarding the late Norval Morrisseau. Like many others who participate here, I am a big fan of Norval Morrisseau and a collector of his works and is blessed to have known his sons - Christian, Eugene, and specially David. The Morrisseaus brothers are of gentle hearts. They loved their father and all of them are great artists in their own right. I have collected Norval and have David's paintings he painted for me personally and have noticed that like Norval, David used the same theme over again and so the question put forward on this blog whether Norval did use the same theme over again the answer, in my opinion, is affirmative.

Now to the difficult task of authenticating the undocumented Norval Morriesseus' paintings and identifying the so-called copies/fake ones, this is not an easy straightforward task because for one thing one must realize the fact that Norval Morrisseau was a prolific artist who painted thousands of paintings from paper, to cardboard, to panel, to leather, to canvases; anything he could get his hands on and the inconsistency of signing and not signing his works and the fact that the majority of his paintings were not documented. He was known to exchange paintings for food, alcohol, taxi fares, etc. He was also known to have painted under the influence of alcohol and therefore it is not hard to imagine that the quality of works could vary from one painting to another. And to complicate things further don't forget that he was known to have "authenticated" some paintings for money and later admitted that he didn't do them. The genuine paintings he did, the masterpieces as well as the ones he painted under the influence of alcohol, are hard enough to identify/document/authenticate factor that with the paintings he collaborated with others (e.g. his children and students) and the paintings that are outright forgery or copies, it is not hard to see the problem in dealing with his undocumented paintings is a huge undertaking.

Who then can authenticate Norval Morrisseaus' works is a very important and difficult question to answer. If would be very easy for all of us if there is a group of experts recognized or accepted by everyone to authenticate Norval's works. The Norval Morrisseau Heritage Society has not authenticated any paintings of Norval Morrisseaus as per thunderbear888report and no one has seen images of the so-called Gabe Vadas CD of 1,000 fake Morrisseaus. I am at a lost why he does not want to share it with others. We can all benefit from seeing these images. So, the so-called experts range from gallery owners, to collectors, to individuals who have collected or studied his works to friends and family members of Norval and everyone has their opinions about what constitute a genuine Norval Morrisseau and the opinions vary from one expert to another; just read what's on this blog to see what I mean. But, what is generally accepted in the art world is the opinion of family members. For example, Group of Seven paintings are sometimes accompanied by a note from a family member (e.g. a son or daughter or a wife authenticating/validating the work). I had, for example, a painting of Arthur Shilling authenticated by his wife on the back of the canvas. So, if one of the sons of Norval Morrisseau authenticate their father's undocumented paintings, in my opinion, it must carry some weight.

So do we continue to collect his works? Absolutely! But study, study, study! Study the so-called real/genuine paintings, study the so-called "fake" paintings, if there are any known documented fake paintings. Again, do your homework. Buy books, read as much as you can including blogs dedicated to the late Master; see as much as you can Norval Morrisseau's works in museums and other places; in galleries, in auction houses, in private collections (if you know anyone). Study all these canvases, look at them and if you can feel them; and you will learn to make informed decision when purchasing a Morrisseau's canvas. There is no short cut to learning art especially the art of Norval Morrisseau. Mr, Morrisseau lived a complicated life; his art mirrors his life. I hope this helps.

CTs comment said...

controversy always surrounds the great artists, this is partly what makes them so.
this debate ,the good,the bad and the ugly are in part what makes up the mystery of Morrisseau.
anything claimed as a Morrisseau has it's place in the history of this great artist, everything.
To wish the ugly to go away, will not make it so.
Again the question will be......"what's it worth"?

Anonymous said...

If we had full HTML privileges each poster can post his/her Morrisseau's right here. Spirit Walker can anything be modified to do that? I can give an easy tutorial if we can..

Spirit Walker said...

As I wrote earlier:

"I am inviting all of the collectors of Norval Morrisseau art to send images of their paintings to be posted in the "Collectors' Corner". It will be providing space for collectors to exhibit their art and for others to post their opinions about art being presented here.

All of the paintings or selection of the paintings from each individual that submit their paintings will be posted in this category.

Conditions are that images need to be low/high resolution and images of the front and back sides need to be submitted with inclusion of title, size, inscription and date if available.

If you feel that you would like to preserve your identity you can always use fictitious e-mail address(s) at Hotmail, Yahoo or Google and send the images that way."

"Let's share Norval Morisseau's images with the World."

Anonymous said...

Question for JZ:

I'm a novice collector of Norval's art. I heard that you collected Norval Morrisseaus yourself at one time??? Can provide advice to collectors such as myself who are just starting out? Where did you get your paintings from? Do you have photos to share with the rest of us?

Yours,
AM

Bryant Ross said...

In Answer to the anonymous question above.

I have removed several paintings from the Morrisseau archive on my web site,coghlanart.com. My web site is heavily used by school children across Canada. I only want the best pieces with full provenance on the archive. These images are free for anyone to use for educational purposes.
The painting you refer to is from quite some time ago. I believe it was sold more than 10 years ago. It had the title "Story Teller" (a title that has been used on many Morrisseau paintings)and was fairly small, I think 18" x 24". Admittedly it is not one of Morrisseau's better works but I do not have a problem with it's authenticity. It does not have any writing on the back. I got it probably 15 years ago from the family that owned U-Frame it in Ottawa. Unfortunatly I do not know where they got it from. Without this full provenance, I have taken it and others off the web site.
The problem with any open forum is that there are always people that will take advantage. The pictures from my morrisseau archive are used all across the internet and not always in ways that respect the artist. Most people believe that they can use them in any way they want, without permission.
I receive emails from school children all across Canada asking permission to use some of these pictures in there reports for native studies. I realized how much it was getting used when I posted an erotic piece by Morrisseau in the archive. I received 3 requests from elementary school teachers to remove it as they didn't think it was appropriate for young school children.

I am working on a flash presentation for the archive that will let people look at the pictures, but not save them. I have a very large collection of photo images, many never seen by the public and I would like to share them. This will be added to the archive in the near future.

For now the archive contains only paintings that I have full provenance back to the artist. It remains free to use by any one.

I will be asking Spirit Walker to post some images of paintings and other Morrisseau objects on the blog in the near future. I have been very busy lately with other projects, but you can expect them next week

Anonymous said...

I don't know where you get your information about me collecting Morrisseaus...

I see no harm in answering... I had 5. Wife has them now. Divorce.

Currently I only have Christian Morrisseaus.

Amazing how people can find information.

I don't have any pictures to share...

Provenance: reputable art gallery.

All my Relations,

JZ